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Posted by macpacheco on August 4, 2010, 12:46 am


Looking at FAA's WAAS Satellite Status page, it looks like the new IIF
SV1 (SVN62/PRN 25) satellite is right on top of PRN30/SVN30.
http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/waas_sats.png

Considering:
1 - There's already PRN12 close by (about 10 degrees forward in the
same orbital plane)
2 - The current constellation optimization effort

Then why not position SVN62 halfway or so between PRN12/SVN58 and
PRN16/SVN56, so that it make the best possible contribution to the GPS
constellation ???

I'm assuming that PRN30 is the next satellite to be retired before IIF
SV2 is launched, since we're at the 32 PRN limit. Also since SVN56 is
a IIR (launched 7 yrs ago) and SVN58 is a IIR-M (launched just 4 yrs
ago), then positioning SVN62 close to either one as a backup shouldn't
be needed, as those birds should both live long enough to be replaced
by GPS III birds.

I was under the impression that newer satellites would be positioned
in a spread out configuration, providing for much better overall GPS
geometry.

Perhaps this is just a launch issue, and IIF SV1 is about to the
repositioned on a smarted position for optimum contribution to the GPS
constellation.

I look forward as the next GPS IIF birds are launched to move closer
to having all 6 orbital planes with 5 or 6 evenly spaced satellites,
which should keep the GPS constellation on par with the Galileo
accuracy goals.

Posted by HIPAR on August 4, 2010, 10:00 am


> Looking at FAA's WAAS Satellite Status page, it looks like the new IIF
> SV1 (SVN62/PRN 25) satellite is right on top of PRN30/SVN30.http://www.ns=
tb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/waas_sats.png
> Considering:
> 1 - There's already PRN12 close by (about 10 degrees forward in the
> same orbital plane)
> 2 - The current constellation optimization effort
> Then why not position SVN62 halfway or so between PRN12/SVN58 and
> PRN16/SVN56, so that it make the best possible contribution to the GPS
> constellation ???
> I'm assuming that PRN30 is the next satellite to be retired before IIF
> SV2 is launched, since we're at the 32 PRN limit. Also since SVN56 is
> a IIR (launched 7 yrs ago) and SVN58 is a IIR-M (launched just 4 yrs
> ago), then positioning SVN62 close to either one as a backup shouldn't
> be needed, as those birds should both live long enough to be replaced
> by GPS III birds.
> I was under the impression that newer satellites would be positioned
> in a spread out configuration, providing for much better overall GPS
> geometry.
> Perhaps this is just a launch issue, and IIF SV1 is about to the
> repositioned on a smarted position for optimum contribution to the GPS
> constellation.
> I look forward as the next GPS IIF birds are launched to move closer
> to having all 6 orbital planes with 5 or 6 evenly spaced satellites,
> which should keep the GPS constellation on par with the Galileo
> accuracy goals.

The new satellite currently does 2.0029 orbits per day. Nominally,
GPS satellites circle about 2.0055 orbits per day. So, GPS IIF-1 is
slowly moving westward with respect to PRN30. About a month from now
when it's scheduled to be usable, GPS IIF will reside between PRN30
and PRN16. I suspect that's its intended destination and they will
adjust its orbital period just before setting it usable.

The Delta IV rocket performed magnificently orbiting the satellite ..
its inclination is an almost perfect 55 degrees and its orbit is
almost a perfect circle.

--- CHAS

Posted by macpacheco on August 4, 2010, 11:12 pm


> > Looking at FAA's WAAS Satellite Status page, it looks like the new IIF
> > SV1 (SVN62/PRN 25) satellite is right on top of PRN30/SVN30.http://www.=
nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/waas_sats.png
> > Considering:
> > 1 - There's already PRN12 close by (about 10 degrees forward in the
> > same orbital plane)
> > 2 - The current constellation optimization effort
> > Then why not position SVN62 halfway or so between PRN12/SVN58 and
> > PRN16/SVN56, so that it make the best possible contribution to the GPS
> > constellation ???
> > I'm assuming that PRN30 is the next satellite to be retired before IIF
> > SV2 is launched, since we're at the 32 PRN limit. Also since SVN56 is
> > a IIR (launched 7 yrs ago) and SVN58 is a IIR-M (launched just 4 yrs
> > ago), then positioning SVN62 close to either one as a backup shouldn't
> > be needed, as those birds should both live long enough to be replaced
> > by GPS III birds.
> > I was under the impression that newer satellites would be positioned
> > in a spread out configuration, providing for much better overall GPS
> > geometry.
> > Perhaps this is just a launch issue, and IIF SV1 is about to the
> > repositioned on a smarted position for optimum contribution to the GPS
> > constellation.
> > I look forward as the next GPS IIF birds are launched to move closer
> > to having all 6 orbital planes with 5 or 6 evenly spaced satellites,
> > which should keep the GPS constellation on par with the Galileo
> > accuracy goals.
> The new satellite currently does 2.0029 orbits per day. =A0Nominally,
> GPS satellites circle about 2.0055 orbits per day. =A0So, GPS IIF-1 is
> slowly moving westward with respect to PRN30. =A0About a month from now
> when it's scheduled to be usable, GPS IIF will reside between PRN30
> and PRN16. =A0I suspect that's its intended destination and they will
> adjust its orbital period just before setting it usable.
> The Delta IV rocket performed magnificently orbiting the satellite ..
> its inclination is an almost perfect 55 degrees and its orbit is
> almost a perfect circle.
> --- =A0CHAS

Hi Chas,
SVN62 was clearly moving until about 3 days ago.
Since then it hasn't moved anymore.
Since I don't have the skill to read GPS ephemerides, considering
comments on specialized sites, it looks like it's initial higher orbit
finally decayed to the proper altitude and a burn was executed
accelerating the bird's speed and arresting the decay.
It seems to be on a proper orbit now. Hopefully before it's set
healthy there's a delta v burn to put it on the move again.

Did anyone noticed that when a pair of satellites as close as PRN25/30
is now (PRN 16/1 was the only case) passes over LA, WAAS VPL shoots
upward, generating an localized VPL200 brown out ?

BTW, SVN49/PRN1 seems to have it's L1 C/A off now.
http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/Waas_SV_Status.txt

Used to show PRN1 with a do not use UDRE of 175, now it's just not
there, since this bird isn't set healthy, USAF didn't issue NANUs,
hopefully a delta v is also underway, since it's current position is
useless considering it's less than optimal signal and positional
overlap with PRN16.

Macp

Posted by HIPAR on August 5, 2010, 12:22 pm


> > > Looking at FAA's WAAS Satellite Status page, it looks like the new II=
F
> > > SV1 (SVN62/PRN 25) satellite is right on top of PRN30/SVN30.http://ww=
w.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/waas_sats.png
> > > Considering:
> > > 1 - There's already PRN12 close by (about 10 degrees forward in the
> > > same orbital plane)
> > > 2 - The current constellation optimization effort
> > > Then why not position SVN62 halfway or so between PRN12/SVN58 and
> > > PRN16/SVN56, so that it make the best possible contribution to the GP=
S
> > > constellation ???
> > > I'm assuming that PRN30 is the next satellite to be retired before II=
F
> > > SV2 is launched, since we're at the 32 PRN limit. Also since SVN56 is
> > > a IIR (launched 7 yrs ago) and SVN58 is a IIR-M (launched just 4 yrs
> > > ago), then positioning SVN62 close to either one as a backup shouldn'=
t
> > > be needed, as those birds should both live long enough to be replaced
> > > by GPS III birds.
> > > I was under the impression that newer satellites would be positioned
> > > in a spread out configuration, providing for much better overall GPS
> > > geometry.
> > > Perhaps this is just a launch issue, and IIF SV1 is about to the
> > > repositioned on a smarted position for optimum contribution to the GP=
S
> > > constellation.
> > > I look forward as the next GPS IIF birds are launched to move closer
> > > to having all 6 orbital planes with 5 or 6 evenly spaced satellites,
> > > which should keep the GPS constellation on par with the Galileo
> > > accuracy goals.
> > The new satellite currently does 2.0029 orbits per day. =A0Nominally,
> > GPS satellites circle about 2.0055 orbits per day. =A0So, GPS IIF-1 is
> > slowly moving westward with respect to PRN30. =A0About a month from now
> > when it's scheduled to be usable, GPS IIF will reside between PRN30
> > and PRN16. =A0I suspect that's its intended destination and they will
> > adjust its orbital period just before setting it usable.
> > The Delta IV rocket performed magnificently orbiting the satellite ..
> > its inclination is an almost perfect 55 degrees and its orbit is
> > almost a perfect circle.
> > --- =A0CHAS
> Hi Chas,
> SVN62 was clearly moving until about 3 days ago.
> Since then it hasn't moved anymore.
> Since I don't have the skill to read GPS ephemerides, considering
> comments on specialized sites, it looks like it's initial higher orbit
> finally decayed to the proper altitude and a burn was executed
> accelerating the bird's speed and arresting the decay.
> It seems to be on a proper orbit now. Hopefully before it's set
> healthy there's a delta v burn to put it on the move again.
> Did anyone noticed that when a pair of satellites as close as PRN25/30
> is now (PRN 16/1 was the only case) passes over LA, WAAS VPL shoots
> upward, generating an localized VPL200 brown out ?
> BTW, SVN49/PRN1 seems to have it's L1 C/A off now.http://www.nstb.tc.faa.=
gov/incoming/Waas_SV_Status.txt
> Used to show PRN1 with a do not use UDRE of 175, now it's just not
> there, since this bird isn't set healthy, USAF didn't issue NANUs,
> hopefully a delta v is also underway, since it's current position is
> useless considering it's less than optimal signal and positional
> overlap with PRN16.
> Macp


Good observation concerning the motion of the new satellite.
Evidently, its orbit was adjusted on or about 4 Aug (Year day 216).
These are the elements issued for the new satellite during the time
span from 28 July to 5 August. The number of orbits per day field is
near the end of line 2:

For GPS IIF (PRN25):

NAVSTAR 65 (USA 213)

1 36585U 10022A 10209.98385673 -.00000023 00000-0 00000+0 0 809
2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 1235

1 36585U 10022A 10209.98385673 -.00000023 00000-0 00000+0 0 810
2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 1235

1 36585U 10022A 10209.98385673 -.00000023 00000-0 00000+0 0 821
2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 1235

1 36585U 10022A 10209.98385673 -.00000023 00000-0 00000+0 0 832
2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 1235

1 36585U 10022A 10216.47419950 -.00000016 00000-0 00000+0 0 843
2 36585 055.0128 080.5162 0010141 351.4654 013.7686 02.00473140 1369

1 36585U 10022A 10216.47419950 -.00000016 00000-0 00000+0 0 854
2 36585 055.0128 080.5162 0010141 351.4654 013.7686 02.00473140 1369

For PRN30:

NAVSTAR 39 (USA 128)
1 24320U 96056A 10216.97259686 -.00000014 00000-0 10000-3 0 6570
2 24320 054.8247 078.8846 0122423 086.0456 275.4316 02.00559162101669

So it would appear that the movement of the new satellite with respect
to PRN30 has been reduced to about 0.3 degrees/day westward.

PRN01 recently did have an orbit adjustment. It's part of the 24+3
constellation reconfiguration. I can only guess they placed it in an
orbit that's nearly identical to PRN16 so analysts can directly
compare the elevation dependent ranging bias. The best minds in the
business haven't been able to devise an acceptable work around for
that issue so I guess we won't get to use the satellite .. it's plain
and simple defective. Perhaps it's still usable for nuclear event
detection or some other nefarious classified purpose.

You can download a GPS satellite tracker that's useful for analyzing
orbits at http://movingsatellites.com/

--- CHAS



Posted by macpacheco on August 11, 2010, 8:03 pm


> > > > Looking at FAA's WAAS Satellite Status page, it looks like the new =
IIF
> > > > SV1 (SVN62/PRN 25) satellite is right on top of PRN30/SVN30.http://=
www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/waas_sats.png
> > > > Considering:
> > > > 1 - There's already PRN12 close by (about 10 degrees forward in the
> > > > same orbital plane)
> > > > 2 - The current constellation optimization effort
> > > > Then why not position SVN62 halfway or so between PRN12/SVN58 and
> > > > PRN16/SVN56, so that it make the best possible contribution to the =
GPS
> > > > constellation ???
> > > > I'm assuming that PRN30 is the next satellite to be retired before =
IIF
> > > > SV2 is launched, since we're at the 32 PRN limit. Also since SVN56 =
is
> > > > a IIR (launched 7 yrs ago) and SVN58 is a IIR-M (launched just 4 yr=
s
> > > > ago), then positioning SVN62 close to either one as a backup should=
n't
> > > > be needed, as those birds should both live long enough to be replac=
ed
> > > > by GPS III birds.
> > > > I was under the impression that newer satellites would be positione=
d
> > > > in a spread out configuration, providing for much better overall GP=
S
> > > > geometry.
> > > > Perhaps this is just a launch issue, and IIF SV1 is about to the
> > > > repositioned on a smarted position for optimum contribution to the =
GPS
> > > > constellation.
> > > > I look forward as the next GPS IIF birds are launched to move close=
r
> > > > to having all 6 orbital planes with 5 or 6 evenly spaced satellites=
,
> > > > which should keep the GPS constellation on par with the Galileo
> > > > accuracy goals.
> > > The new satellite currently does 2.0029 orbits per day. =A0Nominally,
> > > GPS satellites circle about 2.0055 orbits per day. =A0So, GPS IIF-1 i=
s
> > > slowly moving westward with respect to PRN30. =A0About a month from n=
ow
> > > when it's scheduled to be usable, GPS IIF will reside between PRN30
> > > and PRN16. =A0I suspect that's its intended destination and they will
> > > adjust its orbital period just before setting it usable.
> > > The Delta IV rocket performed magnificently orbiting the satellite ..
> > > its inclination is an almost perfect 55 degrees and its orbit is
> > > almost a perfect circle.
> > > --- =A0CHAS
> > Hi Chas,
> > SVN62 was clearly moving until about 3 days ago.
> > Since then it hasn't moved anymore.
> > Since I don't have the skill to read GPS ephemerides, considering
> > comments on specialized sites, it looks like it's initial higher orbit
> > finally decayed to the proper altitude and a burn was executed
> > accelerating the bird's speed and arresting the decay.
> > It seems to be on a proper orbit now. Hopefully before it's set
> > healthy there's a delta v burn to put it on the move again.
> > Did anyone noticed that when a pair of satellites as close as PRN25/30
> > is now (PRN 16/1 was the only case) passes over LA, WAAS VPL shoots
> > upward, generating an localized VPL200 brown out ?
> > BTW, SVN49/PRN1 seems to have it's L1 C/A off now.http://www.nstb.tc.fa=
a.gov/incoming/Waas_SV_Status.txt
> > Used to show PRN1 with a do not use UDRE of 175, now it's just not
> > there, since this bird isn't set healthy, USAF didn't issue NANUs,
> > hopefully a delta v is also underway, since it's current position is
> > useless considering it's less than optimal signal and positional
> > overlap with PRN16.
> > Macp
> Good observation concerning the motion of the new satellite.
> Evidently, its orbit was adjusted on or about 4 Aug (Year day 216).
> These are the elements issued for the new satellite during the time
> span =A0from 28 July to 5 August. =A0The number of orbits per day field i=
s
> near the end of line 2:
> For GPS IIF =A0(PRN25):
> NAVSTAR 65 (USA 213)
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10209.98385673 -.00000023 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
809
> 2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 =A01235
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10209.98385673 -.00000023 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
810
> 2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 =A01235
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10209.98385673 -.00000023 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
821
> 2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 =A01235
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10209.98385673 -.00000023 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
832
> 2 36585 055.0138 080.7924 0007005 130.9664 229.1683 02.00291174 =A01235
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10216.47419950 -.00000016 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
843
> 2 36585 055.0128 080.5162 0010141 351.4654 013.7686 02.00473140 =A01369
> 1 36585U 10022A =A0 10216.47419950 -.00000016 =A000000-0 =A000000+0 0 =A0=
854
> 2 36585 055.0128 080.5162 0010141 351.4654 013.7686 02.00473140 =A01369
> For PRN30:
> NAVSTAR 39 (USA 128)
> 1 24320U 96056A =A0 10216.97259686 -.00000014 =A000000-0 =A010000-3 0 =A0=
6570
> 2 24320 054.8247 078.8846 0122423 086.0456 275.4316 02.00559162101669
> So it would appear that the movement of the new satellite with respect
> to PRN30 has been reduced to about 0.3 degrees/day westward.
> PRN01 recently did have an orbit adjustment. =A0It's part of the 24+3
> constellation reconfiguration. =A0I can only guess they placed it in an
> orbit that's nearly identical to PRN16 so analysts can directly
> compare the elevation dependent ranging bias. =A0The best minds in the
> business haven't been able to devise an acceptable work around =A0for
> that issue so I guess we won't get to use the satellite .. it's plain
> and simple defective. =A0Perhaps it's still usable for nuclear event
> detection or some other nefarious classified purpose.
> You can download a GPS satellite tracker that's useful for analyzing
> orbits athttp://movingsatellites.com/
> --- =A0CHAS

Latest orbit data for SVN62/PRN25:

GPS BIIF-1 (PRN 25)
1 36585U 10022A 10221.95172154 .00000008 00000-0 10000-3 0 939
2 36585 55.0268 80.3086 0004969 124.7574 235.3809 2.00549204 1476

And for PRN30/SVN30:

GPS BIIA-27 (PRN 30)
1 24320U 96056A 10221.95848479 .00000007 00000-0 10000-3 0 6636
2 24320 54.8282 78.6822 0122583 86.3020 275.1905 2.00559481101763

Another burn must have been executed, SVN62 is almost stationary at
this point, perhaps moving 0.03 degrees/day now.
So, unfortunately, the GPS people don't want SVN62 on an ideal
position, at least for now...
So my point remains.
If they wanted to put SVN62 on a more useful position, it would still
be moving a little faster...