Problems with Garmin Bluechart Americas 9.0

Bernie BAK wrote:

It will be interesting to see if you get the same error. I called
Navionics one time with a question about the data in BlueChart and they
didn't want to talk to me, almost to the point of rudeness. They said
to talk to Garmin. I was looking for some info on the marine symbols in
Navionics/Garmin charting.



I noticed that too. There is some clumsiness or something in the way
BlueChart and MapSource work as you go up and down through the zoom
levels with your view centered on charts of different scales. I'll
often get "over zoom warnings" down in the lower right corner in
MapSource but if I continue to zoom down in until only the smaller scale
chart is visible, details will suddenly appear and then the warning will
go away. But, like you say, in that location you mentioned, the data
just never shows up.

I found the details from the other instance of a similar problem in that
area. That was with a Garmin BlueChart preloaded SD card (G2 card?)
and the problem was at N45° 07' W80° 03'. In that instance, two charts
of different scales, CA2202(E) and CA 2202(H), overlap at that position.
When that location was viewed from a 76Cx GPS receiver, it looked like
CA2202(E) had no data (just the blue background) when zoomed in.

I think it was because CA2202(E) was missing some data or something like
that. And that when zoom levels had CA2202(E) was overlaying the larger
scale CA2202(H) it masked the details in (H) or something like that.

There were some awash rocks near that location that were a real concern
for the boater in the other case.

MapSource is not a great piece of software but I've used it so much and
long enough that I have adapted to it. I was recently coaching another
person though using it and it was only then that I realized how bad it
is and how many things I do subconsciously to use it.



Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Thanks, Jack, for your additional comments. The errors are truly
embarassing for Garmin.

I looked at the CA2202 error on my Garmin 172C which I have permanently
installed on our boat, with a pre-programmed Bluechart Americas 8.0
Garmin Data Card. Same thing.

In general, I like Mapsource's Bluecharts as they have great detail for
the Great Lakes (except when you head into smaller bays which are
basically uncharted). Have you had any experience with other marine
maps (from Magellan, others)? I may switch if others are more
accurate.

Thanks for sharing your experience,

Bernie.

Bernie BAK wrote:

I found a note about the other bad spot I mentioned. In that case the
issue was in the location where the southern end of CA2202H overlapped
the northern end of CA2202E. CA2202E was the offending chart as it did
not contain any data and it masked the data when it was on.

Ironically, the guy that asked me about that issue had purchased the
BlueChart charting because of an earlier incident where he did several
thousands of Dollars of damage to his out drive by striking some barely
submerged rocks. And the error in his charts leaves him at risk for
something like that to happen again.

I know a lot of places in coastal Maine where placid waters can easily
lull a boater into big trouble. You simply have to know where you are
and what the soundings are at all times. And your waters up there seem
quite the same.


I used the Magellan BlueNav charts on my Meridians (a Marine and a
Color) for a few years before I changed to the Garmin 76Cx and
BlueChart. Magellan's BlueNav charts were also licensed from Navionics
so I would expect them to be the same as Gamin's BlueChart other than
some minor differences in the way they are handled or presented on the
different brands.

I've not looked at the CA2200 issues on the BlueNav charting, I should
do that when I get some time. I don't remember if BlueNav covered
those same areas and the data would be 3 to 5 years older than BlueChart
9 but it will be interesting to see if the same errors were there then.
If they are there, it would seem to place the fault with Navionics
more than Garmin or Magellan.

One issue for me, and it was a factor in my switching from Magellan to
Garmin, was that Magellan quit offering BlueNav on a CD or DVD when
their eXplorist line came out. If I had "downgraded" from a Meridian
Color to the new but little improved, slightly dumber, and actually less
capable, eXplorist XL, I would of had to suffer the added insult of
having to buy all the BlueNav charting I had been using again on
preloaded SD cards. And those were going to be like 5 to 8 times as
expensive to cover a given area.

Knock on wood, I've not found a single issue in the waters I've used the
BlueChart charting in. I absolutely love the confidence and sense of
security I get from having the 76Cx along when I'm delivering other
people's boats. I always plan my routes in advance and look at them on
BlueChart in MapSource and usually also on the NOAA raster and vector
charts using the Trial version of Coastal Explorer.

The Garmin is not a substitute for having charts on paper but I don't
have a copy of every small scale chart for every harbor and every area I
travel. Nor could I hardly carry them all with me if I did. So having
the MapTech Region 2 chartbook for the bigger picture and the Garmin for
the detailed view works out perfectly for me.


You're welcome, I love sharing sea stories, I am always entertained and
I learn from them too.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Thanks, Jack:



I'll check it out.


Amazing: I did get a reply from Garmin:
_______________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Problems with Bluechart Americas 9.0
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:43:24 -0500

Thank you for contacting Garmin Cartography. What you are seeing is the
combination of several things. First, the two charts have different
scales. CA373053 is a 30K chart and CA2203G is a 20K chart and even
though they are very similar the detail can be different between them.
The second thing is that CA373053 is a digital S57 chart. S57 charts do
not always directly represent the paper charts they are based on though
they are/should be very similar but there will be some differences. The
other issue at play here is that the focus of chart CA2203G is east of
this area and many times on paper charts the area away from the detailed
focus area will be more general. These factors all contribute to what
you are seeing in this particular area.

All of our Canadian BlueChart data is licensed through NDI. NDI in turn
licenses the data from the Canadian Hydrographic Service. In areas
where NDI does not offer the digital S57 data that can be sent to us
directly Garmin digitizes the paper charts published by the CHS. I will
certainly pass this along to our marine cartography team to take a look
at but it would appear that based on the data available to us via the
CHS we have published all of the detailed charts for this area. I do
apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Please let me know if you have any other questions and thank you for
your interest in Garmin.

Regards,

Nathan
_______________________________________________________

I guess they are aware of the issue but have no intention of retifying
the mismatch. And at the lowefr zoom levels the chart is too
rudimentary to navigate.


Oh well, I guess I am stuck with Garmin after all.


That would be great, I 'd love to know.


I'll have to check what paper charts are available in Canada for that
area of Georgian Bay.

Bernie BAK wrote:

Wow! That makes you a dignitary of sorts I think. Interesting reply
too. Thanks for sharing that here.

I've not followed it closely but the company mentioned, NDI, has had
exclusive rights to sell CHS mapping for some time.

There has been some kind of squabble going on between NDI and the
Canadian government over that exclusive agreement. You can read an
overview of that (from NDI's point of view) here:

http://www.digitalocean.ca/DigitalOceanE-Store/newsmarch14.asp

That dispute was apparently resolved in favor of the CHS a few months
ago and the Canadian government now has the exclusive right to
distribute their own mapping products:

http://www.digitalocean.ca/digitaloceane-store/Newsmar31_07.asp

Canadian boaters have long had to pay pretty high prices for marine
charting whereas American's got the mapping produced by our government
for free in an electronic form. And fairly cheaply from the Government
Printing Office. The rationale for that is that we (as taxpayers) were
entitled to have it because we were paying the cost of producing it.
And also, it is in the best interests of the general public (safety,
etc.) for it to be available.

I recently noticed that Canadian topo mapping is now available for free
downloads. It will be interesting to see if the CHS makes their marine
charting products available for free too.

Now the only missing piece of the puzzle is for someone to start making
and selling good handheld and dash mounted GPS receivers (like the
various Garmin models) that can use mapping from an open architecture
agencies like CHS and NOAA.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)